There is a tension between the first amendment and our legitimate societal desire for retribution. These crimes seem somehow worse than other violent crimes, because they grow not just out of the broken places in the perpetrator, as you put it, Rob, but out of a hatred that infects more than just that individual.
But as awful, as repugnant as hate motivated crimes are, there is an argument to be made that all crimes of this violent and brutal nature are motivated by some sort of hate. Not a hatred of a gender, or a sexual orientation, or a race or an ethnicity, but a hatred for humanity.
Instead of hate crime legislation, which to me and many other liberals feels a lot like thought policing, I would rather see legislation making homosexuals a protected class for civil rights suits. I would rather see marriage become legal for any two people (of the age of majority and not related to one another) that seek it. I would like to see our disgust at this sort of hate expressed at a time before it is allowed to fester and vent. I would rather we had protected Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. when there was still hope for them.
And as for the rape in Richmond, California. I could give some feminist reading of the situation, I could talk about failed parenting, or the glamorization of sexual violence, or the completely disconnected way in which teenagers (and even people our age) think about or have sex. But ultimately, all I can think about is this poor little girl. Hers was a hate crime too, but unfortunately the cause of 15 year old girls preyed upon in highschool is not a banner anyone has yet taken up. And no amount of legislation, no amount of prosecution is going to make it any better.
This is the essential problem with crime legislation. It presupposes that monsters like this think about the consequences of their actions before they commit these horrific crimes. But hatred usurps all ability to think clearly. A hatred that kills will not be stopped by the fear of prosecution. A hatred that kills will not be stopped by a second thought.
Robert Taylor
· 2 months ago
Great article, Rob. I definitely agree with your conclusion of certain things "remain[ing] beyond the reach of law to correct." To a libertarian, those words are bliss. I think a point that isn't really brought up about incidents like the one in Richmond is how our modern schools are not educational facilities, but borderline prisons (school buses and prison buses even look the same!). Since most "education" is run by the guns of the state, it is an example of the deterioration of a society that is continuously dependent on the state as a savior and answer to our problems.
TDub
· 2 months ago
Damn, man. There are times I swear you given Glenn Beck and Nancy Grace solid runs for their money, what with all the hyperbolic sensationalism. Borderline prisons? "Guns of the state"? And for Chrissake, dude. A bus is a fucking bus is a fucking bus.
None of that jives in the slightest with my experience working within the public school system, within an inner-city high school. None of that jives in the slightest with the experience I've had seeing my daughter all the way from Kindergarden to the now seventh grade. None of that jives in the slightest with the experiences and opinions of friends of mine who have taught. You, in a nutshell, are talking out of your ass. And we've enough of that in the mass media already. So cut it out already.
To explore the tangent however: The main problem public schools face, are largely rooted in the communities they're supposed to support, and that are supposed to support them. To wit: Education can not happen effectively, if children are not given the appropriate support, attention and awareness on the home front, from parents or legal guardians on the home front. It's a team effort. Too often however, one side isn't making much of an effort to keep up their end of the bargain. And it's certainly not the incredible men and women manning the chalkboards.
The world at large is an incredibly difficult one for a child to get through in one piece. Within the cities, that difficulty multiples exponentially, due to all the other influences they're beset with. Without the proper guidance, care, and love, those influences, simply, lay them the fuck out, and undermine any possible hope of learning how to build a brighter future for themselves. Inject those children into a school system then, and those influences are channeled directly into the educational systems bloodstream.
Teachers find themselves having to struggle to maintain order in the classroom more then they find themselves actually able to teach. Teachers find themselves called upon to often to play surrogate parent, which prevents them from filling their role as educator. And so the system fails because it is prevented from doing what it is supposed to do, often by the very people it's supposed to be helping and supporting.
You want a real example of the deterioration of our society? Look instead towards the role models and parents that we're producing. You want to know why shit's failing? That's a much better place to start.
Robert Taylor
· 2 months ago
TDub,
I take it very personally that you would compare me to somebody like Glenn Beck, who is in love with the state as long as a Republican is president.
When I say that education is run by the "guns of the state," I mean that education is funded by state coercion against every individual who happens to live in that certain area. The government is nothing more than the power of brute force, and when an institution like education is run by violence, it should be opposed on this moral level. For the utilitarian argument, all we have to do is look at the results that government education brings. It costs more and more every year, and we get less and less of it. You are right by pointing out that education ultimately begins with the parents at home and the community, and any functioning education system has to have both elements. The important point is that all of these steps should be the product of free and voluntary associations. Before we had a giant Leviathan state governing nearly every aspect of our lives, the US had thousands of voluntary guilds, unions, and groups that worked to address the complex and delicate problems that plague society (read "From Mutual Aid to the Welfare State: Fraternal Societies and Social Services, 1890-1967," a life-changing book), and they were dealt with in a far better (and moral) way. I am guessing you believe there should be government education, and though I vehemently disagree, I would never dream of using coercion against you to enforce my opinion. Would you give me, and others, the same respect?
All Comments
But as awful, as repugnant as hate motivated crimes are, there is an argument to be made that all crimes of this violent and brutal nature are motivated by some sort of hate. Not a hatred of a gender, or a sexual orientation, or a race or an ethnicity, but a hatred for humanity.
Instead of hate crime legislation, which to me and many other liberals feels a lot like thought policing, I would rather see legislation making homosexuals a protected class for civil rights suits. I would rather see marriage become legal for any two people (of the age of majority and not related to one another) that seek it. I would like to see our disgust at this sort of hate expressed at a time before it is allowed to fester and vent. I would rather we had protected Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. when there was still hope for them.
And as for the rape in Richmond, California. I could give some feminist reading of the situation, I could talk about failed parenting, or the glamorization of sexual violence, or the completely disconnected way in which teenagers (and even people our age) think about or have sex. But ultimately, all I can think about is this poor little girl. Hers was a hate crime too, but unfortunately the cause of 15 year old girls preyed upon in highschool is not a banner anyone has yet taken up. And no amount of legislation, no amount of prosecution is going to make it any better.
This is the essential problem with crime legislation. It presupposes that monsters like this think about the consequences of their actions before they commit these horrific crimes. But hatred usurps all ability to think clearly. A hatred that kills will not be stopped by the fear of prosecution. A hatred that kills will not be stopped by a second thought.
I think a point that isn't really brought up about incidents like the one in Richmond is how our modern schools are not educational facilities, but borderline prisons (school buses and prison buses even look the same!). Since most "education" is run by the guns of the state, it is an example of the deterioration of a society that is continuously dependent on the state as a savior and answer to our problems.
None of that jives in the slightest with my experience working within the public school system, within an inner-city high school. None of that jives in the slightest with the experience I've had seeing my daughter all the way from Kindergarden to the now seventh grade. None of that jives in the slightest with the experiences and opinions of friends of mine who have taught. You, in a nutshell, are talking out of your ass. And we've enough of that in the mass media already. So cut it out already.
To explore the tangent however: The main problem public schools face, are largely rooted in the communities they're supposed to support, and that are supposed to support them. To wit: Education can not happen effectively, if children are not given the appropriate support, attention and awareness on the home front, from parents or legal guardians on the home front. It's a team effort. Too often however, one side isn't making much of an effort to keep up their end of the bargain. And it's certainly not the incredible men and women manning the chalkboards.
The world at large is an incredibly difficult one for a child to get through in one piece. Within the cities, that difficulty multiples exponentially, due to all the other influences they're beset with. Without the proper guidance, care, and love, those influences, simply, lay them the fuck out, and undermine any possible hope of learning how to build a brighter future for themselves. Inject those children into a school system then, and those influences are channeled directly into the educational systems bloodstream.
Teachers find themselves having to struggle to maintain order in the classroom more then they find themselves actually able to teach. Teachers find themselves called upon to often to play surrogate parent, which prevents them from filling their role as educator. And so the system fails because it is prevented from doing what it is supposed to do, often by the very people it's supposed to be helping and supporting.
You want a real example of the deterioration of our society? Look instead towards the role models and parents that we're producing. You want to know why shit's failing? That's a much better place to start.
I take it very personally that you would compare me to somebody like Glenn Beck, who is in love with the state as long as a Republican is president.
When I say that education is run by the "guns of the state," I mean that education is funded by state coercion against every individual who happens to live in that certain area. The government is nothing more than the power of brute force, and when an institution like education is run by violence, it should be opposed on this moral level.
For the utilitarian argument, all we have to do is look at the results that government education brings. It costs more and more every year, and we get less and less of it.
You are right by pointing out that education ultimately begins with the parents at home and the community, and any functioning education system has to have both elements. The important point is that all of these steps should be the product of free and voluntary associations.
Before we had a giant Leviathan state governing nearly every aspect of our lives, the US had thousands of voluntary guilds, unions, and groups that worked to address the complex and delicate problems that plague society (read "From Mutual Aid to the Welfare State: Fraternal Societies and Social Services, 1890-1967," a life-changing book), and they were dealt with in a far better (and moral) way.
I am guessing you believe there should be government education, and though I vehemently disagree, I would never dream of using coercion against you to enforce my opinion. Would you give me, and others, the same respect?